quarterturn (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
quarterturn) wrote2008-05-19 04:22 pm
quarterturn) wrote2008-05-19 04:22 pm
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I don't want to comment on the SPN misogyny wank one way or the other, and this question is purely out of curiosity, not intended to prove one side right or wrong.
A lot of people are bringing up numbers in relation to the number of female-based pejoratives Sam and Dean use in seasons one and two as opposed to the amount they use in season three.
Here's my question, though: How many opportunities are they given to use them in seasons one and two? For the most part, aren't the Big Bads of the season male, and most of the MOTWs? Even Meg, who I'd consider a Big Bad, had very little contact with either of the boys throughout the season, IIRC (most of the contact she has with Sam is before he finds out she's a demon, I think.)
In season three, we have Bela (who I think even those that love her can agree was written as antagonistic and had ethical issues), Lilith, and Ruby (who even the viewers aren't given the facts about where her loyalties are.) Bela and Ruby are given as much screen time as the regulars in past seasons were, the difference being that in the other two seasons, the regulars were Bobby, Ellen, Jo, Ash, etc., all characters written as friends or at least friendly to their cause.
So given that season three has two new regular female characters deliberately written as "baddies" or at least antagonistic/of dubious loyalties - that the boys see on a regular basis - I don't think it's necessarily strange that Sam and Dean's pejorative count would go up.
Granted, I haven't re-watched the first season in its entirety since it came out, ditto on the second season, so I very well may be remembering wrong. It's just that sometimes data can be skewed like that, and I think basing your opinion of how misogynistic the show is or isn't on skewed data can be a little dangerous.
Feel free to prove me wrong or discuss or whatnot, this was just a little bit of "hmm" that popped into my head earlier.
A lot of people are bringing up numbers in relation to the number of female-based pejoratives Sam and Dean use in seasons one and two as opposed to the amount they use in season three.
Here's my question, though: How many opportunities are they given to use them in seasons one and two? For the most part, aren't the Big Bads of the season male, and most of the MOTWs? Even Meg, who I'd consider a Big Bad, had very little contact with either of the boys throughout the season, IIRC (most of the contact she has with Sam is before he finds out she's a demon, I think.)
In season three, we have Bela (who I think even those that love her can agree was written as antagonistic and had ethical issues), Lilith, and Ruby (who even the viewers aren't given the facts about where her loyalties are.) Bela and Ruby are given as much screen time as the regulars in past seasons were, the difference being that in the other two seasons, the regulars were Bobby, Ellen, Jo, Ash, etc., all characters written as friends or at least friendly to their cause.
So given that season three has two new regular female characters deliberately written as "baddies" or at least antagonistic/of dubious loyalties - that the boys see on a regular basis - I don't think it's necessarily strange that Sam and Dean's pejorative count would go up.
Granted, I haven't re-watched the first season in its entirety since it came out, ditto on the second season, so I very well may be remembering wrong. It's just that sometimes data can be skewed like that, and I think basing your opinion of how misogynistic the show is or isn't on skewed data can be a little dangerous.
Feel free to prove me wrong or discuss or whatnot, this was just a little bit of "hmm" that popped into my head earlier.
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It would be particularly interesting if they did address Dean's attitudes toward women next season. Maybe they won't really have time, with him being in hell or something like it, but. Although I'm wondering if he'll be confronted with his sins in life. Hm! (Though I feel as though SPN's hell isn't about sinning, so much as the conscious decision to sell or give yourself away to hell willingly. Thus the deals, the promises witches make to demons, or ghosts bringing down other ghosts with them, like Mary did. Still. DEAN'S SINS. I wanna hear them. >:D)
Jumping back to John Simm for a moment, do you have an idea of where I could find Crime and Punishment with him in it? Hahaha, to be honest, I'm more interested in Rose Tyler's dad as Razumikhin. PETE!
I looked for it on YouTube but all I found was the trailer and also this amusing but somewhat disturbing comment:
my favorite part of the book is when Raskolnikov's essay on crime is discussed by Porfiry, its almost as dostoevsky read my thoughts, I share the exact same view on crime and completely agree on raskolnikov's analysis on who can commit crimes
Yikes.
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my favorite part of the book is when Raskolnikov's essay on crime is discussed by Porfiry, its almost as dostoevsky read my thoughts, I share the exact same view on crime and completely agree on raskolnikov's analysis on who can commit crimes
HAHAHA WHAT. I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.
*indulges in Simm for a while*